Mormon; ladder day saint

argument: Joseph smith, the Modalist, who is contrary to 3 nephi 19:28 showing non-modalism: “Luke 10:23 All things are delivered to me of my Father; and no man knoweth that the Son IS the Father, and the Father IS the Son, but him to whom the Son will reveal it.” (Joseph Smith Jr., Inspired Revision of the King James Version: Containing the Old and New Testaments)

Versus

3 nephi 19:28: “Father, I thank thee that thou hast purified those whom I have chosen, because of their faith, and I pray for them”

Argument 1 against LDSC: Joseph Smith revealed a mistranslation of the papyri as recorded in the “Pearl of Great Price” (which is a LDS revelation):

[Note: Joseph Smith is not only telling us who these figures are but where we'll find their identities.]

Joseph Smith’s mistranslation of the papyri from Egyptian hieroglyphs to English:

1. Misidentifies the Egyptian god Isis as the Pharaoh.

2. Misidentifies the Egyptian god Osiris as Abraham.

3. Misidentifies the Egyptian god Maat as the Prince of the Pharaoh.

4. Misidentifies the dead Hor as a waiter.

5. Misidentifies the Egyptian god Anubis as a slave.

6. Misidentifies a female as a male two times.

The LDSC says, “Neither the rules nor the translations in the grammar book correspond to those recognized by Egyptologists today” and also, “None of the characters on the papyrus fragments mentioned Abraham’s name or any of the events recorded in the book of Abraham. Mormon and non-Mormon Egyptologists agree that the characters on the fragments do not match the translation given in the book of Abraham” (Translation and Historicity of the Book of Abraham).

If Joseph Smith was revealed the translation of the papyri correctly, then why did he **mistranslate** the papyri revelation?

If the Pearl of Great Price is scripture in the LDSC, why is it mistranslating the papyri revelation? Does this show Joseph was **NOT** a true prophet?

Argument 2 against the LDSC **The false *BODILY* Father of the LDSC**:

Official LDS teaching: “*The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s*; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us” (Doctrine and Covenants 130).

Biblical teaching that the Father is spirit, not flesh. Notice the direct contrast between the Father being spirit and his spiritual “hand” vs fleshly man and fleshly horse: “Now the Egyptians are **men, and not God [’êl]**; And their **horses flesh, and not spirit**. When the **Lord [YHWH]** shall stretch out his **hand**” (Isaiah 31:3 KJV). Therefore, this verse shows the Father does **NOT** have a fleshly body, contrary to what the LDSC asserts.
john 4:24 connected with Luke 24:36-42; note that "spirit" in greek in both quotations is "pneuma."

Argument 3 against the LDSC (more complex argument and harder to explain). Mormons claim that **ONLY** the Father is Elohim—but the Son is **NOT** also Elohim. But biblically speaking, Jesus is ACTUALLY Elohim **as well**

The belief that the Father is Elohim whereas Jesus is Jehovah was NOT solidified as core Mormon doctrine until 1916. Prior to this time the terms were used more fluidly and interchangeably for both the Father and the Son. Proof of this old usage below:

Joseph Smith in a letter to Major General Law dated August 14,1842, and in keeping with common American usage, he used the title Jehovah for God the Father, but also equated Jehovah with elohim: “Let us plead the justice of our cause; trusting in the arm of Jehovah, the Eloheim, who sits enthroned in the heavens.” It is clear that the Prophet, by equating elohim with Jehovah, used the terms differently than Latter-day Saints do today.

**BUT** in 1916 the First Presidency, in an essay entitled “The Father and the Son: A Doctrinal Exposition by the First Presidency and the Twelve,” issued a statement concerning the nature of the Godhead. The statement, published in the Improvement Era, set forth the official position of the Church on the Father and the Son. This passages shows that Mormonism now shifts how Mormons use the terms, showing that Jehovah is specifically Jesus, whereas Elohim is specifically the Father, but not Jesus: “God the Eternal Father, whom we designate by the exalted name-title ‘Elohim,’ is the literal Parent of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, and of the spirits of the human race.” [3] The statement also made it clear that “Christ in His preexistent, antemortal, or unembodied state . . . was known as Jehovah.” [4] This is how Latter-day Saints use these terms in the Church today. Summary: Mormon usage of terms are as follows, (1) Elohim/YHWH = the Father, and (2) Jehovah/YHWH = Jesus.

But the Bible actually shows that Jesus is **ALSO** Elohim. Elohim is **NOT JUST** the Father. Proof as shown below.

The writer of Hebrews takes the following Psalms, which refer to the Messianic king as Elohim: "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of uprightness is the scepter of Your kingdom.7 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You With the oil of joy above Your companions."
(Psalm 45:6-7 LSB).

And the psalms also describe YHWH as the unchangeable Creator and Sustainer of all creation:

“A Prayer of the afflicted when he is faint and pours out his complaint before Yahweh. O Yahweh, hear my prayer! And let my cry for help come to You… But You, O Yahweh, abide forever, And the remembrance of Your name from generation to generation… Of old You founded the earth, And the heavens are the work of Your hands. Even they will perish, but You will remain; And all of them will wear out like a garment; Like clothing You will change them and they will be changed. But You are the same, And Your years will not come to an end” (Psalm 102:1, 12, 25-27).

And attribute these statements to Jesus:

“But of the Son He says, ‘Your throne, O God (ho theos), is forever and ever, And the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of Your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You With the oil of gladness above Your companions.’ And, “You, Lord [the Son], in the beginning founded the earth, And the heavens are the works of Your hands; They will perish, but You remain; And they all will wear out like a garment, And like a mantle You will roll them up; Like a garment they will also be changed. But You are the same, And Your years will not come to an end’” (Hebrews 1:8-12)

THEREFORE, the book of Hebrews shows that Jesus is also Elohim.

More proof that Jesus is also Elohim:

Isaiah 40:3–5 promises a voice preparing the way for “our God (elohenu),” which the NT identifies as John the Baptist (Mark 1:3; Luke 3:1–6; John 1:19–23).
John announces that the coming One—“mightier than I” (Mark 1:7; Luke 3:15–17; Acts 19:4; John 1:26–36)—is Jesus, showing that Jesus himself is the YHWH Elohim Isaiah foresaw.

Argument 4 against the LDSC (more complex argument and harder to explain). LDS claims that **ONLY** the Father is Elohim, but the Holy Spirit is **NOT** Elohim as well. But biblically speaking, the Holy Spirit is ACTUALLY Elohim **as well**.

“lelohim” is speaking in Jeremiah 31:33-34 (i.e. “I will be their God”) and the psalmist of Psalms 95:6-11 mentions “elohenu” speaking as well (i.e. “Let us kneel before Yahweh our Maker. For He is our God (elohenu)).

Now, the New Testament reveals that the Elohim who is speaking in those above verses **IS THE HOLY SPIRIT**, as it is shown in Hebrews 3:7-11 (“the Holy Spirit says…”); 10:15-17 (“the Holy Spirit also testifies…”).

Therefore, contrary to the LDSC—the Holy Spirit is also Elohim.

YHWH is the one and only true Elohim [LDSC grants this].
The Father is identified as YHWH Elohim [LDSC grants this].
The Son is identified as YHWH Elohim [Proven above].
The Holy Spirit is described as YHWH Elohim as well [Proven above].
Therefore, Father, Son and Holy Spirit are all YHWH Elohim [Deduced logically].
The Father is not the Son, and neither of them is the Holy Spirit [LDSC grants this].
YHWH, therefore, isn’t a singular Person [which is what the LDSC asserts] but actually is a singular Being who eternally exists as three distinct, yet inseparable, Persons, namely, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit [which is what Christianity affirms].

Confusion on whether Jesus is a separate being from the Holy Spirit:

in Acts 28:25–27, Paul says “the Holy Spirit…spoke through Isaiah,” equating the Spirit with the "’ă-ḏō-nāy" [i.e. Adonai/Jehovah/Jesus] who was speaking in Isaiah 6:8-10.

The Holy Spirit = Jehovah/Jesus/Adonai

((((NOTE: Adonai is Jehovah according to the LDSC's interpretation of Jews: "Why then is Jehovah missing from our Bible translations? The answer can be found in the way His name has been treated by Jews since the days of Malachi and Zechariah. Jehovah is the name of God, and devout Jews, out of reverence for Him, never say His name. Instead they substitute Adonai, a Hebrew title meaning “Lord.” So whenever they speak of Him or read aloud His name from scripture, they substitute Adonai (Lord)" as found in "LORD = Jehovah," By Keith H. Meservy

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2002/06/lord-equals-jehovah?lang=eng))))

Joseph Smith believed three gods: “I have always declared God to be a distinct personage, Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and that the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a Spirit: and these three constitute three distinct personages and three God" (History of the Church, 6:474. pp. 41-42 as found in https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/bc/content/shared/content/english/pdf/language-materials/36481_eng.pdf;

and as found also in: Chapter 47, “Doctrine and Covenants 121:11–46,” in Doctrine and Covenants: Student Manual: Religion 324 and 325 (Salt Lake City: Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 2017)

Joseph Smith went privately to a grove of trees, where he claimed to have a face-to-face meeting with God the Father and Jesus Christ. He said that they informed him that all existing churches were wrong, and he was to restore the true faith.

The fact that this "revelation" happened in private makes his claim more hard to believe

He claimed to have translated the Golden Plates, which were written in what he called “Reformed Egyptian” (Mormon 9:32)—a language no one’s ever heard of before or since.

Moreover, he used seer stones (also known as “Urim and Thummim”) to translate. His method? Simple. He’d put these stones inside a hat—yes, a hat—and peer into it to dictate the Book of Mormon. No need to actually study the plates or even know the original language. And just to make things even more convenient, once he was done, the Golden Plates were conveniently whisked away by an angel, making it impossible for anyone else to verify their existence—or even his ability to translate. It’s like the ultimate “trust me, bro” moment in religious history.

Is Jehovah (i.e. YHWH) the same as elohim?

James E. Talmage—an apostle of the LDSC—says that Elohim = Father; Jehovah (i.e. YHWH) = Jesus (implying Elohim ≠ Jehovah/YHWH)

“Elohim, as understood and used in the restored Church of Jesus Christ, is the name‑title of God the Eternal Father, whose firstborn Son in the spirit is Jehovah — the Only Begotten in the flesh, Jesus Christ" (Apostle; Jesus the Christ, 1915).

The Bible shows Elohim = Jehovah (i.e. YHWH).

"Unto thee it was showed, that thou mightest know that Jehovah he is God [ʾĕlōhîm]; there is none else besides him…. Know therefore this day, and lay it to thy heart, that Jehovah he is God [ʾĕlōhîm] in heaven above and upon the earth beneath; there is none else" (Deut. 4:35, 39, ASV)
"I am Jehovah, and there is none else; besides me there is no God [’ĕ-lō-hîm]" (Isa. 45:5, ASV)

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